Passing All The Sections?

[Eauz]

Hello, all,

I thought I read somewhere that the new format of the JLPT will require the person to pass all sections of the exam, in order to pass that specific level. Is this true? I can't seem to find where I read that though. Could anyone help me with this?

[julianjalapeno]

From the jlpt website:

`In order to pass, (1) total score needs to be at or above the point required for passing (overall pass mark) and (2) score in each scoring section needs be at or above the minimum point required for passing (sectional pass mark). If there is even one scoring section where the score is below the sectional pass mark, examinees are determined to have failed, no matter how high the total score he/she might have.

Minimum required points for total score and individual scoring sections will be announced at the same time as notification of 2010 JLPT results. For N1 through N3, they will be ready in September 2010 when notification of results of the first (July) test is made, and for N4 and N5, they will be ready in March 2011 when notification of results of the second (December) test is made.`

There has been some debate on these forums about what the sectional pass marks will be and while some say that they`re going to be 60% (or 70 for N1) like the overall minimum pass mark, my guess is they`re lower (like 50%). After all, what would be the point of an overall necessary score if it was the same as each section score? Its also possible that each section score is different, so we`re just going to have to wait until its announced.

[asthenia]

I disagree, it will probably remain steady at 60% or rise to 70%. Pretty much universally, 60~65% is considered a "D" at most schools and even an "F" in others.

I don't think it would ever drop to 50%, because frankly, if you're scoring only 50%, you're barely understanding and by most school standards, you would've failed.

Even at 60%, I don't think someone should be moving to the next level. That's pretty poor competency really and a clear sign you haven't mastered everything in the current level. I wish they'd raise the total score across the board to 70% - it'd make it more challenging for some people for sure, but it would ensure that Japanese comprehension is actually being achieved and people aren't skimming by on the seat of their pants and then claiming to be proficient.

[julianjalapeno]

I was saying 50% for each section, not the overall, which I believe they already said will stay at 60% for N2 and lower. The point in having minimums for the 3 sections is to make sure students` skills arent unbalanced, since many Chinese test-takers in the past can crush the reading and kanji, but maybe get 30% on the listening and still pass the test.

And 50% isn`t necessarily a fail. According to the always reliable wikipedia 50% is still a pass in Japan.

[asthenia]

Yeah, I meant 60% for all three sections. Actually I was going to mention that earlier, that my guess for the change in grading was because of the Chinese test-takers. I heard someone talking about that too, how there were a lot of people passing with N2 but couldn't speak/listen to JP at all.

I just don't know why they would allow it to be 50% for each section and then 60% overall - I think it would be easier to grade, etc. and more balanced to make it 60% per section and 60% pass grade.

And yeah, 50% is basically fail. Look at the grading score and it shows that 50% is teetering between "acceptable" i.e. D and fail. That's not a score to be proud of nor think you can move on to the next level, whether its graded a D or an F. That's really my thinking for why it wouldn't be dropped to 50- 50% comprehension just doesn't cut it.

[julianjalapeno]

I definitely agree that 50% or even 60% doesn`t exactly scream true competency. I think 70% should be the pass grade for all levels, but I also want to pass so I won`t complain if its lower.
Incidentally, my Japanese professor in college had her grading scale at 50% being equivalent to a C, which was nice because she made her tests ridiculously hard and we all would`ve failed otherwise. Looking back on it now, the material is harder than N1 stuff. I dunno what she was thinking.

[NeWbY]

Well yeah. Making the minimum pass percentage too high might make the test harder to pass. Like unless you know all required N2 stuff, you won't pass with 100%.
I think 70% is more realistic / closer to being able to claim you're proficient enough for that level, for each section and in total (not that total matters anymore if you're going to give a minimum for each section anyways).
As for those chinese, well yeah, they know Kanji since they were raised with it. It's just easier for them, and now just by knowing kanji it doesn't neccessarly means you will / can pass the test as you need the same knowledge for listening as well.

[asthenia]

Julianjalapeno >> Yeah, that's the biggest thing is that the lower the grade the worse it looks, and these tests in the long run are supposed to show schools/jobs you're competent, not skimming by. That's why I've got a strong view. I've personally decided if I get below 80% in any test that I'll probably be retaking it because I feel if I don't make that mark, I don't understand enough to keep moving. Hopefully I'll hit that mark this time so I can move onto N3 for next year.

Your teacher's tests were harder than N1?! That's incredible, I would've given up, lol.

[asthenia]

Newby >> Agreed! I think 70% is just a good and fair grade because if you can pass with a C, its likely that in many situations, you'll be able to fare OK.
Even if it makes the test harder, it makes it that much more of an accomplishment if you pass.

I think the change is good because it puts everyone on an even playing field, so even those who know kanji have to study and actually be proficient.

[skim]

for levels 1 and 2 I think the minimum passing grade is a 70%.

[julianjalapeno]

As posted in another thread, they`ve finally announced the official pass grades: http://www.jlpt.jp/e/topics/201008291283128850.html and holy moley are they low.

N1 is now 55% overall and 32% minimum per section and N2 is 50% overall and 32% minimum per section.

Uh...wtf? I was going to wait until next summer to take the N1, but now I`m just going to do it in December. As a test taker, this is kind of boss but it also kind of makes it not such an accomplishment...

[asthenia]

That link isn't working, are you sure it copied right?

That's... really depressing actually. It makes the JLPT really as you said, not much of an accomplishment anymore. I wonder if this is going to make it incredibly harder to find a job now ..

[NeWbY]

The DNS server of the webhost seems to be down, that's why the website doesn't resolve anymore.

55% overall N1 compared to 70% JLPT1.
50% overall N2 compared to 60% JLPT2.
On top of that, 32% minimum per section.

Awww.

[julianjalapeno]

I just noticed that the overall pass mark for N3 is 53%, higher than for N2. Either they made a typo (or two) with this graph or they've really lost it.

[ReyBrujo]

Wait... so, instead of 70% as average between the three sections for JLPT1 you now need to get 55% as average plus 32% minimum per section? I am afraid this means they have greatly raised the difficulty level of the test, it is the only way to explain having such low scoring.

[Patorioto]

OK a couple of things:

1- 50% is passing in Japan. Actually, I think in your standard junior high school you can pass with a 30% or above.

2- Just because the passing lines are lower doesn't mean that it makes the test any less of an accomplishment. It was definitely harder than the old L2, and I highly doubt they allowed the passing line to let everyone pass.

In western countries we may be used to a different system but they very likely included more difficult material and less throw away questions (definitely less gimme questions than the old L2). Although I'm sure anyone can make mistakes, there are professionals who are designing this test and I have a hard time believing they would let it get to the point that "anyone could pass."

Also one more thing- in the past you could conceivably completely fail listening but score a perfect on kanji and ok on reading and pass. Even if 30% seems kind of ridiculous, remember that in the past there was no minimum line whatsoever so this is more fair than the old version.

[julianjalapeno]

Incidentally, I took a mock exam offered a few weeks before the actual test for N2 in July to test the new format and they sent me back the results along with the average scores of all test-takers:

Vocab/kanji/grammar: 56%
Reading: 62%
Listening: 67%

(Something like that, I`m going off of memory), so this does show that people weren`t exactly lighting the world on fire with their Japanese proficiency, but based on the new grading scale, most people would have passed.

BTW, my scores were pretty weird:

Vocab/kanji/grammar: 100%
Reading: 64%
Listening: 63%

At least I know what my strong points are :\

[ReyBrujo]

True enough. With the new test samples, they are focusing on comprehension, so it leads me to believe (again, if the lower scores are real, haven't yet accessed the site) that the new test is pretty different.

Before, the pass mark at 70% meant that the test goal was to differentiate those that didn't pass from those that did pass. Now, the mark at 50% (or so) means that it not only differentiates between those that know and don't know, but also they can grade more effectively those that know (it is different passing with a 50% than with a 70%, which means you are much more proficient at the language, compared to a 90%, which means you are even more proficient), something that was harder to measure before.

[asthenia]

I'm glad I'm still on the N4 right now so while I'm going to be on a similar playing field to the old level, by the time I start studying for the N3 and newer designed levels, the kinks should be worked out so I won't be blindsided by a new design. D:

I guess lowering the score is good if the test has gotten harder, but at the same time, I still feel like 50% isn't really good enough once you hit the N2. I do totally agree though that it is a fairer system though now - the minimum pass marks should've been there all along to prevent the loophole of failing listening and still passing the exam.

[Patorioto]

Actually Rey I think the JLPT info even mentioned something about a "can do" list that would detail what kind of level the test taker is at based on their score.

I imagine this would be used in your score report so a prospective employer or school would be able to easily see what you can and can't do (theoretically).