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Jixan
JLPT Starter
Joined: 13 Apr 2012
Posts: 1
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 Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:09 pm Post subject: Regarding order in noun-modifying clauses. |
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Say I wanted to say:
The pretty flowers I bought are there.
Are both of the following correct:
私がきれいな買った花はそこです。
私が買ったきれいな花はそこです。
Or are there stricter rules regarding the order of the noun-modifying clause?
I mean, if there's more stuff:
私が昨日きれいで赤い買った花はそこです。
昨日私がきれいで赤い買った花はそこです。
What's the most grammatically correct way of ordering it? |
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CyrilMtl
JLPT Starter
Joined: 06 Oct 2010
Posts: 40
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:27 am Post subject: |
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I think this one is the good one :
私が買ったきれいな花はそこです。
for the other two, the postition of 昨日 is not important here I think,
as katta is past, and desu is present.
私が買ったきれいな花はそこです。
I think if it was deshita at the end, it can change a little
昨日.....deshita could look like the : nice flower I bought were here yesterday
or : yesterday I bought some nice flower and they were here
with
私が昨日.....deshita : we know that you bought the flower yesterday.
yesterday I bought some nice flower and they were here
私が昨日.....desu : we know that you bought the flower yesterday.
yesterday I bought some nice flower and they are here
sorry for the romaji, office PC. Perhaps some japanese guru can correct me ? |
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NeWbY
JLPT Helper
Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Posts: 292
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:36 am Post subject: |
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No, the first one isn't grammatically correct.
If we look at the first one:
| Quote: |
The I pretty bought flowers are there.
私がきれいな買った花はそこです。 |
We see that I pretty modifies bought flowers. In Japanese, as in English, I pretty isn't grammatically correct.
To make the sentance grammatically correct, you have to take out the I:
| Quote: |
The pretty bought flowers are there.
きれいな買った花はそこです。 |
If we look at the second one:
| Quote: |
The pretty flowers I bought are there.
私が買ったきれいな花はそこです。 |
This is grammatically correct in English and in Japanese.
Do note that きれいな and きれいに are different modifiers.
PS: sorry if it doesn't make sense, it's kind of late to explain it clearly :/ |
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CyrilMtl
JLPT Starter
Joined: 06 Oct 2010
Posts: 40
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:23 am Post subject: |
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Newby :
The pretty bought flowers are there.
きれいな買った花はそこです。
it seems weird for me, I understand it
きれいな(買った)花はそこです。
Even ok grammatically, does it sound good for a japanese ?
with きれいに you modified the verb 買った,
that make something like :
The nicely bought flower ...
NewBy ? Any other japanese ninja ?
| NeWbY wrote: |
No, the first one isn't grammatically correct.
If we look at the first one:
| Quote: |
The I pretty bought flowers are there.
私がきれいな買った花はそこです。 |
We see that I pretty modifies bought flowers. In Japanese, as in English, I pretty isn't grammatically correct.
To make the sentance grammatically correct, you have to take out the I:
| Quote: |
The pretty bought flowers are there.
きれいな買った花はそこです。 |
If we look at the second one:
| Quote: |
The pretty flowers I bought are there.
私が買ったきれいな花はそこです。 |
This is grammatically correct in English and in Japanese.
Do note that きれいな and きれいに are different modifiers.
PS: sorry if it doesn't make sense, it's kind of late to explain it clearly
:/ |
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dimitri_can
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Joined: 04 Dec 2007
Posts: 605
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fmilton
JLPT Starter
Joined: 13 May 2012
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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| CyrilMtl wrote: |
Newby :
The pretty bought flowers are there.
きれいな買った花はそこです。
it seems weird for me, I understand it
きれいな(買った)花はそこです。
Even ok grammatically, does it sound good for a japanese ?
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I know it is very hard to study the language - I am trying so hard every single day. I just wanted to send my mother a bouquet of next day flower delivery by serenata shops in the uk for mother's day and I wanted to make her proud writing something in Japanese but it was so hard to translate that I was afraid to make a lot of grave mistakes and my mum is very fluent and perfect in Japanese.  |
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