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spurrymoses
JLPT Helper
Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 399
Location: Sydney, Australia
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 Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 1:43 pm Post subject: Just when I thought I knew all the particles... と |
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Just when I thought I'd learned all the particles, I've found a reading comprehension in the JLPT3 exam (2004) which doesn't fit anything I've ever seen.
It's all in the first sentence - which I understand perfectly. But have no idea how or why the particle と (to) is used:
| Quote: |
| 今も 前と 同じ 会社で 仕事を していますか。 |
To clarify my understanding, I would translate this as: "Are you still working at the same company as you were before?"
The only uses I know of と are:
1) 'with' as in 友だちと 公園へ 行く。
2) 'and' as in バナナとおかしが 好き。
3) 'whenever' as in なっとうを見ると 元気になる
4) 'called' as in ロバ という いぬです。
5) 'a quote' as in ピーターさんは へんだと 言っていました。
In my first thought, I can't see why the grammar shouldn't be: 今も 前も...
After all, a similar sentence could be written like this: 今日も きのうも ゆっくり した ね。 Which is from another JLPT3 grammar question.
Can anyone shed some light on this use of 'to'. Does it fit into the 5 categories I've learned (somehow) or is yet another usage? |
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Tim
JLPT Helper
Joined: 29 Jul 2005
Posts: 218
Location: Perth, Western Australia
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| Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 3:44 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| 今も 前と 同じ 会社で 仕事を していますか。 |
Translates as: Are still you working at the same company as before?
The と in the sentence is part of the grammar AはBと同じ which is used to say that the 2 things are the same. In this case it is used to compare 今の会社 and 前の会社. The は can be replaced with a も in certain cases.
The も in 今も gives the sentence the nuance of "even now".
So i would say in conclusion that the と is used as part of a grammar structure for the usage of the word 同じ. |
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spurrymoses
JLPT Helper
Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 399
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Tim wrote: |
| So i would say in conclusion that the と is used as part of a grammar structure for the usage of the word 同じ. |
I see, it's a 6th usage pattern for me. That clarifies it a lot, thanks for that.
Given your explanation, I googled with the text [Bと同じ] and found a similar explanation (I didn't have the knowledge to do such a Google before your post).
http://www.theforeigner-japan.com/japanese101/grammar/constructions/comparative.htm
Note, for other learners, that it's the same as といっしょ
So another example could be:
京子のセーターは 私（の）と 同じ です。
Kyoko's sweater is the same as mine.
Where you can replace は with も here as well and the same goes for replacing 同じ with いっしょ. |
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Tim
JLPT Helper
Joined: 29 Jul 2005
Posts: 218
Location: Perth, Western Australia
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| Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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Nice site. I forgot that と一緒に (to isshoni) also falls into that category.
I that find answering your questions helps me strengthen my basics. Pretty much after you get to a certain stage in Japanese.. you tend to forget the grammar rules and just do grammar based on feeling. It's not a bad thing but after a while it becomes hard to remember the exact rules for the grammar forms. Thats especially true when you start learning large amounts of grammar.
I find by explaining by answering questions like yours, I am slowly reinforcing those rules and finding any holes in my understanding. |
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